lynx des steppes + gigantiforme

Voilà j'ai unLynx des steppes en jeu je mets un terrain puis je joue un Gigantiforme sur lui.
le lynx des steppes et 8/8 ou bien 10/10?

Merci

8/8 grâce au Gigantiforme car tu le joues après que son landfall se soit activé.

Faux. (avant les regles M2010 cela aurait été juste, mais ce n'est plus le cas)

il sera 10/10.

car l'effet "gagne +2/+2" (couche 7c) s'applique toujours après l'effet "devient 8/8" (couche 7b)

[ Dernière modification par lyon4 le 25 oct 2009 à 12h35 ]

Merci , cool je peut tuer tour 3 en bloc zendikar


ps :

car l'effet "gagne +2/+2" (couche 7c) s'applique toujours après l'effet "devient 8/8" (couche 7b)

tu entend quoi par couche 7c, 7b, merci, c'est pour mieux comprendre l'explication

[ Dernière modification par boiaak le 25 oct 2009 à 14h30 ]

Salut boiaak

Les couches correspondent à une règle un peu complexe à bien assimiler qui permet de gérer l'interaction de ce qu'on appelle les effets continus (c'est à dire les effets qui ont une durée comme celui d'une croissance gigantesque qui dure jusqu'à la fin du tour ou celui de la capacité d'une antienne glorieuse qui dure tant que l'antienne est sur le champ de bataille. On oppose les effets continus aux effets "à un coup" qui n'ont aucune durée à proprement parler comme celui d'une colère de dieu ou celui de la capacité d'un sorcier sybarite qui sont des effets très ponctuels.).

Voici la règle sur les effets continus, les couches et les sous-couches :

613. Interaction of Continuous Effects
613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a
card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a
spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then
all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
613.1a Layer 1: Copy effects are applied. See rule 706, “Copying Objects.”
613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied.
613.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, “Text-Changing Effects.”
613.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. This includes effects that change an object’s
card type, subtype, and/or supertype.
613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied.
613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding and ability-removing effects are applied.
613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then
all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6). Note that dependency may alter the order in
which effects are applied within a layer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each
sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.6.) Note that dependency may alter the
order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.7.)
613.3a Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities are applied. See rule 604.3.
613.3b Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied.
613.3c Layer 7c: Effects that modify power and/or toughness (but don’t set power and/or toughness
to a specific number or value) are applied.
613.3d Layer 7d: Power and/or toughness changes from counters are applied. See rule 120.
613.3e Layer 7e: Effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness are applied. Such effects take
the value of power and apply it to the creature’s toughness, and take the value of toughness and
apply it to the creature’s power.
Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the
creature’s power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. A new effect gives
the creature +5/+0. Its “unswitched” power and toughness would be 6/4, so its actual
power and toughness is 4/6.
Example: A 1/3 creature is given +0/+1 by an effect. Then another effect switches the
creature’s power and toughness. Its new power and toughness is 4/1. If the +0/+1 effect
ends before the switch effect ends, the creature becomes 3/1.
613.4. The application of continuous effects as described by the layer system is continually and
automatically performed by the game. All resulting changes to an object’s characteristics are
instantaneous.
Example: Crusade is an enchantment that reads “White creatures get +1/+1.” Crusade and
a 2/2 black creature are on the battlefield. If an effect then turns the creature white (layer
5), it gets +1/+1 from Crusade (layer 7c), becoming 3/3. If the creature’s color is later
changed to red (layer 5), Crusade’s effect stops applying to it, and it will return to being
2/2.
Example: Gray Ogre, a 2/2 creature, is on the battlefield. An effect puts a +1/+1 counter on
it (layer 7d), making it 3/3. A spell targeting it that says “Target creature gets +4/+4 until
end of turn” resolves (layer 7c), making it 7/7. An enchantment that says “Creatures you
control get +0/+2” enters the battlefield (layer 7c), making it 7/9. An effect that says
“Target creature becomes 0/1 until end of turn” is applied to it (layer 7b), making it 5/8
(0/1, plus +4/+4 from the resolved spell, plus +0/+2 from the enchantment, plus +1/+1
from the counter).
613.5. If an effect should be applied in different layers and/or sublayers, the parts of the effect each
apply in their appropriate ones. If an effect starts to apply in one layer and/or sublayer, it will
continue to be applied to the same set of objects in each other applicable layer and/or sublayer, even
if the ability generating the effect is removed during this process.
Example: An effect that reads “Wild Mongrel gets +1/+1 and becomes the color of your
choice until end of turn” is both a power- and toughness-changing effect and a colorchanging
effect. The “becomes the color of your choice” part is applied in layer 5, and then
the “gets +1/+1” part is applied in layer 7.
Example: Grab the Reins has an effect that reads “Until end of turn, you gain control of
target creature and it gains haste.” This is both a control-changing effect and an effect that
adds an ability to an object. The “you gain control” part is applied in layer 2, and then the
“it gains haste” part is applied in layer 6.
Example: An effect that reads “All noncreature artifacts become 2/2 artifact creatures until
end of turn” is both a type-changing effect and a power- and toughness-setting effect. The
type-changing effect is applied to all noncreature artifacts in layer 4 and the power- and
toughness-setting effect is applied to those same permanents in layer 7, even though those
permanents aren’t noncreature artifacts by then.
Example: Svogthos, the Restless Tomb, is on the battlefield. An effect that says “Until end of
turn, target land becomes a 3/3 creature that’s still a land” is applied to it (layers 4 and 7b).
An effect that says “Target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn” is applied to it (layer 7c),
making it a 4/4 land creature. Then while you have ten creature cards in your graveyard,
you activate Svogthos’s ability: “Until end of turn, Svogthos, the Restless Tomb becomes a
black and green Plant Zombie creature with ‘This creature’s power and toughness are each
equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard.’ It’s still a land.” (layers 4, 5, and
7b). It becomes an 11/11 land creature. If a creature card enters or leaves your graveyard,
Svogthos’s power and toughness will be modified accordingly. If the first effect is applied to it again, it will become a 4/4 land creature again.

Il y a d'autres petites subtilités à connaître comme la règle dite du "tampon horaire" ou celle des effets dépendants.

Tu trouveras toutes ces règles dans les règles complètes.

Ces règles sont actuellement en cours de traduction.

En attendant, si après lecture tu as la moindre question, n'hésite pas.

A++

Je comprend trop mal l'anglais

Merci tout de même