Butcher Ghoul - Plague Belcher

Bonjour,

J'ai une question sur l'interaction entre ces deux cartes:
J'ai une Butcher Ghoul avec une marqueur +1/+1 (grâce à la survivance par exemple) et je lance mon Plague Belcher. Lorsque ce dernier arrive en jeu, je met les 2 marqueurs -1/-1 sur la goule qui va donc mourir.
Ma question est: revient-elle à nouveau en jeu avec un marqueur +1/+1 grâce à la survivance ? Car les marqueurs -1/-1 et +1/+1 s'annulent.
Ou reste-t-elle au cimetière car les 2 marqueurs arrivent en même temps, et donc au moment où la goule meurt, elle a un marqueur +1/+1 sur elle ?

J'espère que mon problème est clair ^^"

Bien cordialement

Bonsoir !

Malheureusement, c'est la deuxième option : la goule ne reviendra pas.

Quand on vérifie les SBA (state based actions), celles qui sont appliquables sont appliquées en même temps (704.3). Donc après avoir mis 2 marqueurs -1/-1 sur ta goule, on met la créature au cimetière (704.5f) en même temps qu'on retire les paires de marqueurs +1/+1 et -1/-1 (704.5q).
Or pour savoir si une créature qui quitte le champ de bataille déclenche une capacité, on regarde à quoi ressemblait cette créature (et l'état du jeu) juste avant qu'elle ne quitte le champ de bataille (603.10, 603.10a). À ce moment elle avait encore un marqueur +1/+1, et sa capacité ne se déclenche donc pas.

603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the event. The list of exceptions is as follows:

603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities, abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability “Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life.” Someone casts a spell that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact’s ability triggers twice, even though the artifact goes to its owner’s graveyard at the same time as the creatures.

[...]

704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state- based actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.

704.5. The state-based actions are as follows:

[...]

704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. Regeneration can’t replace this event.

[...]

704.5q If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.

[...]

Dommage ^^"

Merci beaucoup pour cette réponse aussi rapide.